Zilpha Nowlin
Narrator,
with comments by Barbara Hull
Ellie Banaie
Interviewer,
with comments by Nikki Lao
May 16, 2015
at the residence of Zilpha Nowlin
Sherman Oaks, California
Zilpha Nowlin -- ZN
Barbara Hull -- BH
Ellie Banaie -- EB
Nikki Lao -- NL
Ellie Banaie: Could you please state your full name?
Zilpha Nowlin: My full name?
EB: Yes.
ZN: Zilpha, well my middle name is Zilpha, I mean Zilpha Mae, I was a Cimpton.
EB: That was your maiden name?
ZN: Zilpha Mae Nowlin, but I was a Cimpton way back when.
EB: So, could you tell us a little about yourself?
ZN: Well, what do you want to know?
EB: Like your past, where you were born, where you were raised…
ZN: I was born in a little town in Arizona, and it was Gila Valley. Now you members of the Church?
Nikki Lao: I am.
ZN: You are?
NL: Yes.
ZN: President….
Barbara Hull: Kimball
ZN: Kimball, Spencer Kimball was my…
BH: Stake president
ZN: He was everything to us, he was our, what am I trying to say?
NL: Was he your bishop?
BH: He was your stake president.
ZN: He was my bishop, he was my stake president, he was everything, that’s way back when.
EB: Did you grow up in Arizona?
ZN: I grew up in Arizona.
EB: In that small town of?
ZN: It was Fort Thomas, I graduated high school in Fort Thomas.
EB: What was it like growing up in Arizona, in America?
ZN: It was really nice growing up. At that time, there was a river there, old cottonwood trees, it
was a beautiful place. Right now, everything is so, no water.
EB: When did you move to California, at what age?
ZN: I came to California in 1931, no 1936.
EB: 1936? So around the time of the Great Depression?
ZN: No, the Great Depression was before that.
EB: Well yes, so in the middle of…
ZN: I was in Arizona for the Great Depression, but we lived on a farm. Everything was good. We had food. But when all of the mines closed, all the people that lived in Marinsy, that was a mining town, they closed, and so they came to live on the farm. So everyone came to my family’s home.
EB: What’s the first thing that comes to mind when you think about the Great Depression in that era?
ZN: Well I think about the, well they call them the Okies. We were in Arizona, and it was dry dry dry, so you’d see the wind come and bring all that dust. And then Oklahoma, it was horrible there, so they moved to Arizona.
EB: How do you feel about the Roosevelt Administration?
ZN: About what?
EB: The Roosevelt Administration? President Roosevelt?
ZN: I thought he was good.
EB: He was good?
ZN: Yes.
EB: Did you go through any hardships during the Great Depression or do you know?
ZN: Well we didn’t because we lived on the farm, and we had all the food we wanted.
NL: I have a quick question, what do you like about FDR?
ZN: What?
NL: What did you like about FDR?
ZN: Well, I liked him. I thought he did very well. A lot of people couldn’t stand him, but I liked him.
EB: How effective do you think his New Deal was, his New Deal?
ZN: What?
EB: His New Deal? Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal?
ZN: I didn’t… At that time I was kind of young, so I didn’t know that much about it.
EB: Did the stock market crash impact you at all? No? How about your family, parents,
grandparents?
ZN: We didn’t have any problems because we lived on a farm, and the cattle and the food, and when the Great Depression, when they had, that was in, when was the Great Depression? What year was it?
BH: Twenty-Nine was when the stock market crashed, and I think it kind of kicked in in 1931.
ZN: Twenty-Nine I was young, and a teenager.
BH: You were sixteen because you were married in thirty-one.
ZN: I married at eighteen in 1931. I lived on a cattle ranch, and we had everything, everything was good.
EB: Did you work during the Great Depression?
ZN: No, I was too young.
EB: You said you were married in 1931, Did your husband work or did he work on the farm?
ZN: We had the cattle ranch.
EB: Okay, so that was?
ZN: We had not only had been the Great Depression, we had the… There was no rain, and the government came in and the cattle were all dying because there was no rain, no nothing! We’re getting a bit of that here now! The government then… My husband was born in Los Angeles, and so when we sold the ranch. Then we came to Los Angeles, and we brought our horses with us.
EB: So you said you moved to California in 1936, correct? And you brought your horses? What did you do in California? Did you start a new ranch?
ZN: My husband was… his parents were very well to do. They owned all of this here [Gestures to home], and this was nothing but orange groves and lemon groves. We rented a house way out in Devonshire and brought our horses. Then we built a little house, it was a good sized house. You wouldn’t believe what it was. We bought a lot in Sherman Oaks. It was over in Van Nuys, near the river. Beautiful place. We bought a lot. Well, it was 100 ft by 300 ft for $625. We built a home on it, and it was a beautiful little home. The contractor said he’d build our house cost less. It was a two bedroom home, with a living room, we called it a den then, and the house cost us $2500. Right now, it would be a million.
EB: During the Great Depression, I know you said you were young, but seeing people around you like the Okies coming towards this area in the west, did you ever think it was going to get better?
ZN: I knew it would get better, it couldn’t get any worse.
EB: What did you believe the government’s responsibility was to its citizens were? Did you believe they needed to help their citizens straight on or did you believe that they needed to let their citizens just?
ZN: I think they should help their citizens, and I think they did help their citizens. Of course, the banks all closed. If you had money in the bank, you couldn’t get it out. But, my husband’s parents were well to do. They had a beautiful home on 730 South Serrano. When we came to California, we had a nice place to stay.
[Pause]
EB: So we’re going to move on to World War II questions. What’s the first thing that comes to your mind when you think about World War II?
ZN: I think of the Great Blackout. We were here, and all of a sudden, everybody blacked out because of the Japanese. My nephew was, only 18 years old, and he was in the Philippines, and he was a prisoner of war the whole time.
EB: What was he doing in the Philippines? Was he in the military?
ZN: He was in the army, and that’s where they were stationed there. Then the Japanese came and bombed Pearl Harbor as you remember. The Arizona ship is still down in the bottom of Pearl Harbor.
EB: Did you work in wartime production?
ZN: I did. I always wanted a big family, but there was some reason that I didn’t have any family, so I worked at the Lockheed. I was Rosie the riveter. And then, we adopted, we had our, in to adopt a child, well anyway, they called and told me that I had a little baby waiting for me, so I quit working and came home and stayed home for the rest of the time.
EB: Did your husband work in wartime production?
ZN: My husband was in the military -- western union. He didn’t go. He had to stay home. The government had him because he was in western union. All the, oh what do you call it?
BH: Classified information?
ZN: What?
BH: Wasn’t it classified information that he worked with?
ZN: He worked with the government.
BH: With Western union?
ZN: With Western Union.
BH: Didn’t he do classified information, so that’s what he did during the war.
EB: Okay, so how influential was the propaganda during the war?
ZN: How influential?
EB: How propaganda, wartime media, posters, stuff like this, how was it influential?
ZN: I don’t know, it didn’t bother me at all.
EB: Did it seem to pull people to support the war and support America joining the war?
ZN: Well, we had to join the war. The Japanese… My brother was in the navy, and he was going on the boat from California to Puerto Rico, and his boat was torpedoed. He made it out, but his friend didn’t. Everything was scary. And so, [Chuckles and Pause] I don’t know what else you want.
EB: How did you feel about the attack on Pearl Harbor? How did you personally feel about it?
ZN: I thought it was horrible because I had people living over there. Yes I thought... I think that the Japanese later felt that it was horrible too.
EB: Did you support the war? Did you support the war before the attack or did the Pearl Harbor attack influence you to support the war or?
ZN: We didn’t even know there was a war until Pearl Harbor, and then all this was blacked out because we didn’t know whether they’d be coming here. No, I supported the war.
EB: What was your reaction to the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
ZN: Oh, I hate war. I think war is horrible. Now, we’re in war all over the place. Every night, we look at the war in Nigeria and all of these places, they’re horrible.
EB: I know you said that you think Japan felt bad after the attack on Pearl Harbor, but did you feel after the bombings from America on Japan, did you feel remorse for Japan?
ZN: I felt that I didn’t have any business doing anything. I was too young about that time.
EB: How old were you at that time?
ZN: Oh, I don’t know, I was in the teens.
EB: So, did you know anyone who fought in the war? In World War II? Either in Europe, or in the Pacific? I know you said your nephew was a war prisoner.
ZN: All my nephews were in the war, and my brothers were all in the war.
EB: Were any of them in Europe or were they all in the Pacific?
ZN: Oh, they were mostly-- let’s see. Well of course, Aston was in the prisoner of war, he was in Japan. He didn’t live very long. He was only 18 and then through the war, came home, and he didn’t live very long after that. Then my brothers, Hermann was in the navy, they were all in different places. Because I … [Pause] I don’t really remember where they were because they were all over the place. I had about 6 or 7 nephews that were in the war.
EB: You talked about the blackout that happened here after the attack on Pearl Harbor, what was that?
ZN: Well, it was a blackout because we didn’t know if it was blacked out, then they didn’t know where to bomb.
EB: So, they blacked out all of California?
ZN: This place, I don’t know whether they did the whole state or not, but ours was blacked out here.
EB: So, if in case Japanese planes were coming to bomb California and America, then they wouldn’t know where.
NL: I remember one time, one of my friends, his grandfather grew up around here during the war too, so he pointed to a siren that was near the elementary school that was near here, and he said it was for warning about the bombs or something, is that true? Is that what that siren was for?
ZN: Yeah, it went off all the time. I don’t remember what for. The army was here. They were here all the time.
EB: Did you leave in this house during the time of the war?
ZN: No, this house wasn’t built in time of the war. I lived over in Valleyhard Drive.
EB: So is that close by here?
ZN: Yes.
EB: Did the war affect every aspect of your life? Did the war affect any aspect of your life.
ZN: The war affected everything. Everything was rationed, gasoline was rationed. We couldn’t buy cars. Everything was bad.
EB: Do you think your life improved or worsened during the war and after the war?
ZN: I always had a good life, so.
EB: How did you feel when you first heard that the US joined the war?
ZN: How did what?
EB: How did you feel when you first heard that the US has joined the war in Europe?
ZN: I just thought that it was awful that the Japanese bombed us.
EB: Did you feel afraid at all? Did you feel like there was a chance that the Japanese would move towards California?
ZN: No, I didn’t. Everything, we had to be careful with everything we did. I just feel that we were building airplanes, everybody came to California and stayed.
EB: What was it like living in a world where Hitler was in charge of almost an entire continent?
ZN: You know, we were right here in California, and Hitler didn’t bother me. I thought he was horrible, but there wasn’t much that I can do.
EB: Did you ever worry that Hitler’s influence would reach California? Or reach America in general?
ZN: I don’t think so.
EB: In your opinion, was World War II a good war?
ZN: I don’t think any war is a good war.
NL: So you didn’t think it was? Even though the Holocaust was happening, you don’t think it was justified that the US joined the war or?
ZN: Well, I think we had to protect ourselves. When was it that I went to Europe? We went to go in… oh gosh, it’s been so long ago that I can hardly remember it. I know they still had the Berlin Wall up, and we went across it. We were in Germany, and we went to East Germany. Everything was so different over there, but that was way after the war of course.
EB: How different was it from America?
ZN: What?
EB: How was it different than America?
ZN: Everything was rationed, and we weren’t very much affected by it. Let’s see, Cathy, my daughter, wanted to go to school, but that was way back when. We went over there when they were still East Germany and West Germany, and the effect of the war over there -- it was so long ago, I can’t remember it.
EB: Did you ever feel that if American doesn’t join the war, then there would be a possibility that Hitler would take over America as well?
ZN: No, I don’t think Hitler -- I think we’re too far away from him.
EB: So, what was the first thing that comes to mind when you think of the Cold War?
ZN: I don’t think I was ever affected by it much. Things were rationed.
NL: During the cold war?
ZN: What?
NL: During the cold war, things were rationed?
ZN: Well, yes.
[Pause]
EB: What was your first reaction when you heard about the bombs being deployed by Japan and America?
ZN: I thought, how could this happen to us? We’re too far from Japan, and Hawaii is a long ways from here.
EB: Did you work during the cold war?
ZN: I never worked, except that time I was riveting, but then I adopted the baby, so I stayed home and took care of my child. And we would have the USO, where you have to have a place for the soldiers to eat. It’s been so long ago, I can’t remember all this stuff.
NL: What’s the first thing that comes to mind when you hear “Communism”?
ZN: What?
NL: What’s the first thing that comes to mind when you hear “Communism”?
ZN: I’m glad that it’s over with! [Laughter]
NL: Why?
ZN: We weren’t very much affected by it, but I’m glad we don’t hear much about it anymore.
NL: Were people always talking about Communists? Were people paranoid about Communism?
ZN: A lot of people were, yes, but we don’t hear much about it anymore. I don’t know what you young people hear about it.
NL: We don’t hear about it.
EB: Well, we learn about it in school.
ZN: That’s what I mean, it doesn’t affect us very much.
EB: How did you feel as a citizen of the country that we were slowly getting out of World War II and then we jumped straight into the cold war and the atomic bombs?
ZN: Well, the Cold War didn’t bother me very much. I don’t really know what the cold war is. What is the cold war?
NL: It’s a series of hostile conflicts between the US and Communist countries like Russia. I know there’s this one conflict with the Cuban Missile Crisis, where I think Russia was trying to give Cuba missiles, and then the US didn’t want that because Cuba was becoming Communist.
ZN: And then Czechoslovakia -- I remember Czechoslovakia because our neighbors were Czechoslovakian, and part of that was demolished.
NL: Did they leave from Czechoslovakia? Did they come here because it was getting demolished?
ZN: No, that was long after that. They live next door. [Pause] I don’t remember too much about all this stuff.
EB: Do you think that the American government was justified in dropping 2 bombs on Japanese cities?
ZN: I think, I don’t know. It didn’t affect me, so I didn’t…
NL: So what did affect you then like what happened in California that really changed you or impacted your lifestyle?
ZN: Well our lifestyle was everyone moved here to work on the ships, to work on the airplanes. This was just nothing but a beautiful country, and then everyone moved here, and we got freeways and we got apartments, and the big schools. We used to not have one apartment, now they’re all apartments.
EB: How did you feel about immigration and immigrants moving here from all around?
ZN: I felt that if I was an immigrant, I’d come too. I love America.
EB: So you think definitely that conditions in America were better than conditions in China or other places?
ZN: Of course I do, I love America. I’ve travelled all over the world, and I wouldn’t trade any place I’ve been for where I’m living here.
EB: What do you think makes America better than all those other places?
ZN: Well I don’t know whether it’s better, but I think we -- I don’t know why it’s better, but…
EB: Why do you like America more?
ZN: I don’t know, I love America. I’ve travelled all over. We have friends in Sweden, we have friends in Russia, we have friends all over, but I’m happy right where I am.
NL: Do you have any interesting stories from your travels? Like some things that happened?
ZN: Well one of the places, one of the things I liked was -- we were in Oslo, we flew to England, then from England to Oslo, then we took a cruise up to the Russian border, and that was a very interesting travel.
NL: When was that?
ZN: When was it?
NL: Yes.
ZN: Oh golly, Richard … About seventy years ago, so what would it be?
BH: Forty-five.
NL: What?
BH: 1945. Well seventy years ago, because the war just about ended 70 years ago from right now, and Richard was born in May of forty three, so he would’ve been 2. Then you got Micah about six months after the war ended, and in June of forty-five, after, V.A, V.E., What was it called?
EB: V-Day?
BH: Yes, I think it was June 6th of forty-four actually, but the war officially ended just about now seventy years ago.
ZN: We travelled. It was beautiful up. Cathy always wanted to go to school in France, so she went there for a year. Then we went over and travelled.
NL: So you guys lived in France while she was in school?
ZN: She was over there a year before we went over, then we bought a car and we travelled for three months over there, just doing what we wanted to do. We had friends in Sweden, and we had friends in Paris, so we visit them. It was a fun time.
NL: What kind of stuff did you guys used to do? What kind of things did you do with your friends?
ZN: What?
NL: What kind of things did you do with your friends? Did you guys just went sightseeing?
ZN: We went sightseeing for a lot. Oh golly, we travelled from one country to the next. Fact, I didn’t even know there was a small country called Lichtenstein. We were there, and their cows had big old bells on. It was fun.
NL: That sounds fun.
EB: You said that you’ve lived a good life, you’ve always had money, at any point did you ever in these crises lose money?
ZN: [Laughter] Recently, my granddaughter’s husband had some people over up in Utah that said if you would go to Costa Rica, so we invested money in Costa Rica. I hate to tell you what… anyway, we invested in condominiums, and he got in with a crook, so you know of the story.
EB: When was this?
ZN: We lost about $700,000 with a crook.
EB: So sorry, when was this approximately?
ZN: Just recently.
[Pause]
NL: Do you have any thoughts on Vietnam or the Korean War? No?
ZN: I just feel war is horrible. I don’t want any part of war.
NL: Do you have a favorite American president? Do you have a favorite one?
ZN: Ronald Reagan.
NL: Why? Why did you like Ronald Reagan out of all of them?
ZN: Because I belong to his club, the Reagan… [sorting through mail] Barbara, where’s our
Ronald Reagan things?
BH: I thought it was over there, but they want to know why you liked him as a president.
ZN: Because he was a good president. His ranch is in Santa Barbara, and they turned that over to a youth society. Oh where can I? It was here a minute ago…
EB: Why did you like Ronald Reagan specifically?
ZN: What?
EB: Why did you specifically like Ronald Reagan?
ZN: Because I like his policies. I like what he did, and he’s a really good man. The Reagan Ranch Project for the Young American Foundation, so I support this. I hope you girls can all go up there. That’s his ranch.
EB: I’ve visited the museum, the Ronald Reagan museum.
NL: The library?
EB: Yes.
ZN: This is for you young people. I support this. I like what he has done for our country.
NL: So if you liked Ronald Reagan so much, then what did you think of President Nixon and the Watergate Scandal?
ZN: I didn’t like that at all.
EB: Why didn’t you like it?
ZN: I didn’t want to be a part of it.
[Pause]
ZN: The Reagan Ranch has turned into -- for the young people. You girls, make it, go there. I did it because I wanted my young people. We have a home, my in-laws lived in Santa Barbara, and we go by the Ronald Reagan Ranch all the time.
[Pause]
NL: So, when I talked to people from church, they said that you told them all kinds of different stories, like what kind of stories did you used to tell people around the church?
ZN: I do? What?
NL: When I talk to people from church, they say that you tell them stories, so what kind of stories did you--
ZN: I tell them stories?
NL: That’s what they’ve told me, but I don’t know.
ZN: What kinds of stories do I tell them, Barbara?
BH: Not much
NL: Well, that’s what they told me.
ZN: Bishop Miele, is his mother still alive?
NL: I’m not sure, why?
ZN: I knew her very well, and I’ve asked people. Bishop Miele, we went to Institute. We older
people went to Institute, and he came to institute.
NL: So you used to know Bishop Miele’s family?
ZN: I haven’t heard about his mother. I knew her, but I’d have to ask him.
EB: Are there any stories that you’d like to share about your past or American past or events that have happened?
ZN: No, I’ve lived on a cattle ranch, I loved it, I went on all the round up, I’ve had my own horse, brought it here to California, and one of my favorite spots in California is right here in…
BH: Franklin Canyon.
ZN: You go, Coldwater Canyon, to Mulholland, then you go across big houses, then you go into the Franklin Canyon, it’s a beautiful place.
[Pause]
NL: I remember there was this one time where I heard about riots happening--
ZN: you heard about what?
NL: Riots?
ZN: When I heard about that riot, I was on a vacation some place. I thought “That can’t happen in California”. It was down in… Where was the riot?
BH: The one in ninety-two after the Rodney King thing? Or are we talking about the Watts Riots in 65?
EB: The Watts riots.
BH: What about the Watts riots. What do you remember about that?
ZN: I wasn’t home.
BH: You weren’t?
EB: What did you think about it when you heard about it?
ZN: I thought it was horrible. I didn’t believe it. I thought, That can’t happen in California.
EB: What really shocked you about that happening in California?
ZN: Well, I thought we had better sense. What’s that one where they’re throwing rocks?
BH: Oh, Baltimore recently? Yeah, people get, excuse my french, pissed off and they just start reacting badly. One thing happens, and they start doing stuff.
ZN: That one mother took her son--
BH: slapping him and cursing at him, and they call her mother of year. I thought, I don’t think so, but she got him off the street. That was the important part, but that’s how riots start. People get mad about something, and they start doing crazy stuff.
ZN: I don’t even like to look at the news because it’s so horrible.
BH: But we like David Muir anyway.
EB: What did you think about the civil rights movement? Did you think the government should do something to ensure equal rights and equality for all its citizens?
ZN: I don’t really know. I think the government does the best that they can.
NL: Would you describe yourself as a liberal or a conservative?
ZN: What?
NL: Would you describe yourself as a liberal or a conservative?
ZN: Conservative.
[Pause]
EB: Is there any part in your life, in American history that you like the most? You supported the most?
ZN: I don’t know, I’ve lived in this little town in Arizona, and it’s right near the Indian reservation, and the Apache Indians, I went to school with them. Right now, they’ve practically taken over the town.
NL: Were they prejudiced against the Indians or was everything --
ZN: No, no, we weren’t prejudiced against the Indians because President… Indians were part of our life really.
EB: When you lived in Arizona, it would be around President Hoover and President Roosevelt, that time?
ZN: I don’t… no before that.
EB: Before Hoover… Wilson? Woodrow Wilson?
NL: I don’t think it was Wilson.
EB: President Wilson was the beginning of the 19. It would be Wilson, then Hoover, then Roosevelt.
ZN: No, I would have to look that…
NL: Wait, so what year were you born? No rudeness or anything.
ZN: I was born in 1913. I’m one hundred and one.
NL: 1913?
ZN: I will be a hundred and two in July, so if you wonder where my memory has gone, it’s gone.
EB: Well, thank you for sharing with us.
ZN: Oh, I don’t think I’ve done very good for you.
EB: No, you have. You shared your experiences, and what you thought about these events in American history, and we appreciate you helping us with our project.
ZN: Oh, I love America. I wouldn’t want to live anyplace else.
EB: Thank you.
NL: So what’s your favorite part about America? Do you just love it completely?
ZN: I do, I love America. I feel sad when things happens, and I think, why would that happen? No, we’ve lived here in the San Fernando Valley. There was nothing here except trees. Where our church is, over here, that was a tomato patch.
NL: Really? That’s funny to imagine.
EB: Once again, thank you for helping us, and thank you for sharing your story. We will make sure we do your story justice.
ZN: I wish I could remember more.
EB: We understand.
ZN: Tell them about Franklin Canyon. Sometime go up to Franklin Canyon. It’s a beautiful place. You go up on Mulholland Drive, and you wouldn’t even know it’s there, and then it would go on to Beverly Hills, and the Franklin family way back when, that was their hideaway. It’s a beautiful place. There’s a little stream down, and there’s two or three little small lakes. This one little lake, it’s pond mostly, and there’s turtles. I didn’t know that turtles hibernated, but in the winter, they hibernate, and in the summertime, they come up, and you’ll find all kinds of little turtles there, and then ducks. Sometime, go up there and… Franklin Canyon.
EB: Definitely. Thank you.
Barbara Hull -- BH
Ellie Banaie -- EB
Nikki Lao -- NL
Ellie Banaie: Could you please state your full name?
Zilpha Nowlin: My full name?
EB: Yes.
ZN: Zilpha, well my middle name is Zilpha, I mean Zilpha Mae, I was a Cimpton.
EB: That was your maiden name?
ZN: Zilpha Mae Nowlin, but I was a Cimpton way back when.
EB: So, could you tell us a little about yourself?
ZN: Well, what do you want to know?
EB: Like your past, where you were born, where you were raised…
ZN: I was born in a little town in Arizona, and it was Gila Valley. Now you members of the Church?
Nikki Lao: I am.
ZN: You are?
NL: Yes.
ZN: President….
Barbara Hull: Kimball
ZN: Kimball, Spencer Kimball was my…
BH: Stake president
ZN: He was everything to us, he was our, what am I trying to say?
NL: Was he your bishop?
BH: He was your stake president.
ZN: He was my bishop, he was my stake president, he was everything, that’s way back when.
EB: Did you grow up in Arizona?
ZN: I grew up in Arizona.
EB: In that small town of?
ZN: It was Fort Thomas, I graduated high school in Fort Thomas.
EB: What was it like growing up in Arizona, in America?
ZN: It was really nice growing up. At that time, there was a river there, old cottonwood trees, it
was a beautiful place. Right now, everything is so, no water.
EB: When did you move to California, at what age?
ZN: I came to California in 1931, no 1936.
EB: 1936? So around the time of the Great Depression?
ZN: No, the Great Depression was before that.
EB: Well yes, so in the middle of…
ZN: I was in Arizona for the Great Depression, but we lived on a farm. Everything was good. We had food. But when all of the mines closed, all the people that lived in Marinsy, that was a mining town, they closed, and so they came to live on the farm. So everyone came to my family’s home.
EB: What’s the first thing that comes to mind when you think about the Great Depression in that era?
ZN: Well I think about the, well they call them the Okies. We were in Arizona, and it was dry dry dry, so you’d see the wind come and bring all that dust. And then Oklahoma, it was horrible there, so they moved to Arizona.
EB: How do you feel about the Roosevelt Administration?
ZN: About what?
EB: The Roosevelt Administration? President Roosevelt?
ZN: I thought he was good.
EB: He was good?
ZN: Yes.
EB: Did you go through any hardships during the Great Depression or do you know?
ZN: Well we didn’t because we lived on the farm, and we had all the food we wanted.
NL: I have a quick question, what do you like about FDR?
ZN: What?
NL: What did you like about FDR?
ZN: Well, I liked him. I thought he did very well. A lot of people couldn’t stand him, but I liked him.
EB: How effective do you think his New Deal was, his New Deal?
ZN: What?
EB: His New Deal? Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal?
ZN: I didn’t… At that time I was kind of young, so I didn’t know that much about it.
EB: Did the stock market crash impact you at all? No? How about your family, parents,
grandparents?
ZN: We didn’t have any problems because we lived on a farm, and the cattle and the food, and when the Great Depression, when they had, that was in, when was the Great Depression? What year was it?
BH: Twenty-Nine was when the stock market crashed, and I think it kind of kicked in in 1931.
ZN: Twenty-Nine I was young, and a teenager.
BH: You were sixteen because you were married in thirty-one.
ZN: I married at eighteen in 1931. I lived on a cattle ranch, and we had everything, everything was good.
EB: Did you work during the Great Depression?
ZN: No, I was too young.
EB: You said you were married in 1931, Did your husband work or did he work on the farm?
ZN: We had the cattle ranch.
EB: Okay, so that was?
ZN: We had not only had been the Great Depression, we had the… There was no rain, and the government came in and the cattle were all dying because there was no rain, no nothing! We’re getting a bit of that here now! The government then… My husband was born in Los Angeles, and so when we sold the ranch. Then we came to Los Angeles, and we brought our horses with us.
EB: So you said you moved to California in 1936, correct? And you brought your horses? What did you do in California? Did you start a new ranch?
ZN: My husband was… his parents were very well to do. They owned all of this here [Gestures to home], and this was nothing but orange groves and lemon groves. We rented a house way out in Devonshire and brought our horses. Then we built a little house, it was a good sized house. You wouldn’t believe what it was. We bought a lot in Sherman Oaks. It was over in Van Nuys, near the river. Beautiful place. We bought a lot. Well, it was 100 ft by 300 ft for $625. We built a home on it, and it was a beautiful little home. The contractor said he’d build our house cost less. It was a two bedroom home, with a living room, we called it a den then, and the house cost us $2500. Right now, it would be a million.
EB: During the Great Depression, I know you said you were young, but seeing people around you like the Okies coming towards this area in the west, did you ever think it was going to get better?
ZN: I knew it would get better, it couldn’t get any worse.
EB: What did you believe the government’s responsibility was to its citizens were? Did you believe they needed to help their citizens straight on or did you believe that they needed to let their citizens just?
ZN: I think they should help their citizens, and I think they did help their citizens. Of course, the banks all closed. If you had money in the bank, you couldn’t get it out. But, my husband’s parents were well to do. They had a beautiful home on 730 South Serrano. When we came to California, we had a nice place to stay.
[Pause]
EB: So we’re going to move on to World War II questions. What’s the first thing that comes to your mind when you think about World War II?
ZN: I think of the Great Blackout. We were here, and all of a sudden, everybody blacked out because of the Japanese. My nephew was, only 18 years old, and he was in the Philippines, and he was a prisoner of war the whole time.
EB: What was he doing in the Philippines? Was he in the military?
ZN: He was in the army, and that’s where they were stationed there. Then the Japanese came and bombed Pearl Harbor as you remember. The Arizona ship is still down in the bottom of Pearl Harbor.
EB: Did you work in wartime production?
ZN: I did. I always wanted a big family, but there was some reason that I didn’t have any family, so I worked at the Lockheed. I was Rosie the riveter. And then, we adopted, we had our, in to adopt a child, well anyway, they called and told me that I had a little baby waiting for me, so I quit working and came home and stayed home for the rest of the time.
EB: Did your husband work in wartime production?
ZN: My husband was in the military -- western union. He didn’t go. He had to stay home. The government had him because he was in western union. All the, oh what do you call it?
BH: Classified information?
ZN: What?
BH: Wasn’t it classified information that he worked with?
ZN: He worked with the government.
BH: With Western union?
ZN: With Western Union.
BH: Didn’t he do classified information, so that’s what he did during the war.
EB: Okay, so how influential was the propaganda during the war?
ZN: How influential?
EB: How propaganda, wartime media, posters, stuff like this, how was it influential?
ZN: I don’t know, it didn’t bother me at all.
EB: Did it seem to pull people to support the war and support America joining the war?
ZN: Well, we had to join the war. The Japanese… My brother was in the navy, and he was going on the boat from California to Puerto Rico, and his boat was torpedoed. He made it out, but his friend didn’t. Everything was scary. And so, [Chuckles and Pause] I don’t know what else you want.
EB: How did you feel about the attack on Pearl Harbor? How did you personally feel about it?
ZN: I thought it was horrible because I had people living over there. Yes I thought... I think that the Japanese later felt that it was horrible too.
EB: Did you support the war? Did you support the war before the attack or did the Pearl Harbor attack influence you to support the war or?
ZN: We didn’t even know there was a war until Pearl Harbor, and then all this was blacked out because we didn’t know whether they’d be coming here. No, I supported the war.
EB: What was your reaction to the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
ZN: Oh, I hate war. I think war is horrible. Now, we’re in war all over the place. Every night, we look at the war in Nigeria and all of these places, they’re horrible.
EB: I know you said that you think Japan felt bad after the attack on Pearl Harbor, but did you feel after the bombings from America on Japan, did you feel remorse for Japan?
ZN: I felt that I didn’t have any business doing anything. I was too young about that time.
EB: How old were you at that time?
ZN: Oh, I don’t know, I was in the teens.
EB: So, did you know anyone who fought in the war? In World War II? Either in Europe, or in the Pacific? I know you said your nephew was a war prisoner.
ZN: All my nephews were in the war, and my brothers were all in the war.
EB: Were any of them in Europe or were they all in the Pacific?
ZN: Oh, they were mostly-- let’s see. Well of course, Aston was in the prisoner of war, he was in Japan. He didn’t live very long. He was only 18 and then through the war, came home, and he didn’t live very long after that. Then my brothers, Hermann was in the navy, they were all in different places. Because I … [Pause] I don’t really remember where they were because they were all over the place. I had about 6 or 7 nephews that were in the war.
EB: You talked about the blackout that happened here after the attack on Pearl Harbor, what was that?
ZN: Well, it was a blackout because we didn’t know if it was blacked out, then they didn’t know where to bomb.
EB: So, they blacked out all of California?
ZN: This place, I don’t know whether they did the whole state or not, but ours was blacked out here.
EB: So, if in case Japanese planes were coming to bomb California and America, then they wouldn’t know where.
NL: I remember one time, one of my friends, his grandfather grew up around here during the war too, so he pointed to a siren that was near the elementary school that was near here, and he said it was for warning about the bombs or something, is that true? Is that what that siren was for?
ZN: Yeah, it went off all the time. I don’t remember what for. The army was here. They were here all the time.
EB: Did you leave in this house during the time of the war?
ZN: No, this house wasn’t built in time of the war. I lived over in Valleyhard Drive.
EB: So is that close by here?
ZN: Yes.
EB: Did the war affect every aspect of your life? Did the war affect any aspect of your life.
ZN: The war affected everything. Everything was rationed, gasoline was rationed. We couldn’t buy cars. Everything was bad.
EB: Do you think your life improved or worsened during the war and after the war?
ZN: I always had a good life, so.
EB: How did you feel when you first heard that the US joined the war?
ZN: How did what?
EB: How did you feel when you first heard that the US has joined the war in Europe?
ZN: I just thought that it was awful that the Japanese bombed us.
EB: Did you feel afraid at all? Did you feel like there was a chance that the Japanese would move towards California?
ZN: No, I didn’t. Everything, we had to be careful with everything we did. I just feel that we were building airplanes, everybody came to California and stayed.
EB: What was it like living in a world where Hitler was in charge of almost an entire continent?
ZN: You know, we were right here in California, and Hitler didn’t bother me. I thought he was horrible, but there wasn’t much that I can do.
EB: Did you ever worry that Hitler’s influence would reach California? Or reach America in general?
ZN: I don’t think so.
EB: In your opinion, was World War II a good war?
ZN: I don’t think any war is a good war.
NL: So you didn’t think it was? Even though the Holocaust was happening, you don’t think it was justified that the US joined the war or?
ZN: Well, I think we had to protect ourselves. When was it that I went to Europe? We went to go in… oh gosh, it’s been so long ago that I can hardly remember it. I know they still had the Berlin Wall up, and we went across it. We were in Germany, and we went to East Germany. Everything was so different over there, but that was way after the war of course.
EB: How different was it from America?
ZN: What?
EB: How was it different than America?
ZN: Everything was rationed, and we weren’t very much affected by it. Let’s see, Cathy, my daughter, wanted to go to school, but that was way back when. We went over there when they were still East Germany and West Germany, and the effect of the war over there -- it was so long ago, I can’t remember it.
EB: Did you ever feel that if American doesn’t join the war, then there would be a possibility that Hitler would take over America as well?
ZN: No, I don’t think Hitler -- I think we’re too far away from him.
EB: So, what was the first thing that comes to mind when you think of the Cold War?
ZN: I don’t think I was ever affected by it much. Things were rationed.
NL: During the cold war?
ZN: What?
NL: During the cold war, things were rationed?
ZN: Well, yes.
[Pause]
EB: What was your first reaction when you heard about the bombs being deployed by Japan and America?
ZN: I thought, how could this happen to us? We’re too far from Japan, and Hawaii is a long ways from here.
EB: Did you work during the cold war?
ZN: I never worked, except that time I was riveting, but then I adopted the baby, so I stayed home and took care of my child. And we would have the USO, where you have to have a place for the soldiers to eat. It’s been so long ago, I can’t remember all this stuff.
NL: What’s the first thing that comes to mind when you hear “Communism”?
ZN: What?
NL: What’s the first thing that comes to mind when you hear “Communism”?
ZN: I’m glad that it’s over with! [Laughter]
NL: Why?
ZN: We weren’t very much affected by it, but I’m glad we don’t hear much about it anymore.
NL: Were people always talking about Communists? Were people paranoid about Communism?
ZN: A lot of people were, yes, but we don’t hear much about it anymore. I don’t know what you young people hear about it.
NL: We don’t hear about it.
EB: Well, we learn about it in school.
ZN: That’s what I mean, it doesn’t affect us very much.
EB: How did you feel as a citizen of the country that we were slowly getting out of World War II and then we jumped straight into the cold war and the atomic bombs?
ZN: Well, the Cold War didn’t bother me very much. I don’t really know what the cold war is. What is the cold war?
NL: It’s a series of hostile conflicts between the US and Communist countries like Russia. I know there’s this one conflict with the Cuban Missile Crisis, where I think Russia was trying to give Cuba missiles, and then the US didn’t want that because Cuba was becoming Communist.
ZN: And then Czechoslovakia -- I remember Czechoslovakia because our neighbors were Czechoslovakian, and part of that was demolished.
NL: Did they leave from Czechoslovakia? Did they come here because it was getting demolished?
ZN: No, that was long after that. They live next door. [Pause] I don’t remember too much about all this stuff.
EB: Do you think that the American government was justified in dropping 2 bombs on Japanese cities?
ZN: I think, I don’t know. It didn’t affect me, so I didn’t…
NL: So what did affect you then like what happened in California that really changed you or impacted your lifestyle?
ZN: Well our lifestyle was everyone moved here to work on the ships, to work on the airplanes. This was just nothing but a beautiful country, and then everyone moved here, and we got freeways and we got apartments, and the big schools. We used to not have one apartment, now they’re all apartments.
EB: How did you feel about immigration and immigrants moving here from all around?
ZN: I felt that if I was an immigrant, I’d come too. I love America.
EB: So you think definitely that conditions in America were better than conditions in China or other places?
ZN: Of course I do, I love America. I’ve travelled all over the world, and I wouldn’t trade any place I’ve been for where I’m living here.
EB: What do you think makes America better than all those other places?
ZN: Well I don’t know whether it’s better, but I think we -- I don’t know why it’s better, but…
EB: Why do you like America more?
ZN: I don’t know, I love America. I’ve travelled all over. We have friends in Sweden, we have friends in Russia, we have friends all over, but I’m happy right where I am.
NL: Do you have any interesting stories from your travels? Like some things that happened?
ZN: Well one of the places, one of the things I liked was -- we were in Oslo, we flew to England, then from England to Oslo, then we took a cruise up to the Russian border, and that was a very interesting travel.
NL: When was that?
ZN: When was it?
NL: Yes.
ZN: Oh golly, Richard … About seventy years ago, so what would it be?
BH: Forty-five.
NL: What?
BH: 1945. Well seventy years ago, because the war just about ended 70 years ago from right now, and Richard was born in May of forty three, so he would’ve been 2. Then you got Micah about six months after the war ended, and in June of forty-five, after, V.A, V.E., What was it called?
EB: V-Day?
BH: Yes, I think it was June 6th of forty-four actually, but the war officially ended just about now seventy years ago.
ZN: We travelled. It was beautiful up. Cathy always wanted to go to school in France, so she went there for a year. Then we went over and travelled.
NL: So you guys lived in France while she was in school?
ZN: She was over there a year before we went over, then we bought a car and we travelled for three months over there, just doing what we wanted to do. We had friends in Sweden, and we had friends in Paris, so we visit them. It was a fun time.
NL: What kind of stuff did you guys used to do? What kind of things did you do with your friends?
ZN: What?
NL: What kind of things did you do with your friends? Did you guys just went sightseeing?
ZN: We went sightseeing for a lot. Oh golly, we travelled from one country to the next. Fact, I didn’t even know there was a small country called Lichtenstein. We were there, and their cows had big old bells on. It was fun.
NL: That sounds fun.
EB: You said that you’ve lived a good life, you’ve always had money, at any point did you ever in these crises lose money?
ZN: [Laughter] Recently, my granddaughter’s husband had some people over up in Utah that said if you would go to Costa Rica, so we invested money in Costa Rica. I hate to tell you what… anyway, we invested in condominiums, and he got in with a crook, so you know of the story.
EB: When was this?
ZN: We lost about $700,000 with a crook.
EB: So sorry, when was this approximately?
ZN: Just recently.
[Pause]
NL: Do you have any thoughts on Vietnam or the Korean War? No?
ZN: I just feel war is horrible. I don’t want any part of war.
NL: Do you have a favorite American president? Do you have a favorite one?
ZN: Ronald Reagan.
NL: Why? Why did you like Ronald Reagan out of all of them?
ZN: Because I belong to his club, the Reagan… [sorting through mail] Barbara, where’s our
Ronald Reagan things?
BH: I thought it was over there, but they want to know why you liked him as a president.
ZN: Because he was a good president. His ranch is in Santa Barbara, and they turned that over to a youth society. Oh where can I? It was here a minute ago…
EB: Why did you like Ronald Reagan specifically?
ZN: What?
EB: Why did you specifically like Ronald Reagan?
ZN: Because I like his policies. I like what he did, and he’s a really good man. The Reagan Ranch Project for the Young American Foundation, so I support this. I hope you girls can all go up there. That’s his ranch.
EB: I’ve visited the museum, the Ronald Reagan museum.
NL: The library?
EB: Yes.
ZN: This is for you young people. I support this. I like what he has done for our country.
NL: So if you liked Ronald Reagan so much, then what did you think of President Nixon and the Watergate Scandal?
ZN: I didn’t like that at all.
EB: Why didn’t you like it?
ZN: I didn’t want to be a part of it.
[Pause]
ZN: The Reagan Ranch has turned into -- for the young people. You girls, make it, go there. I did it because I wanted my young people. We have a home, my in-laws lived in Santa Barbara, and we go by the Ronald Reagan Ranch all the time.
[Pause]
NL: So, when I talked to people from church, they said that you told them all kinds of different stories, like what kind of stories did you used to tell people around the church?
ZN: I do? What?
NL: When I talk to people from church, they say that you tell them stories, so what kind of stories did you--
ZN: I tell them stories?
NL: That’s what they’ve told me, but I don’t know.
ZN: What kinds of stories do I tell them, Barbara?
BH: Not much
NL: Well, that’s what they told me.
ZN: Bishop Miele, is his mother still alive?
NL: I’m not sure, why?
ZN: I knew her very well, and I’ve asked people. Bishop Miele, we went to Institute. We older
people went to Institute, and he came to institute.
NL: So you used to know Bishop Miele’s family?
ZN: I haven’t heard about his mother. I knew her, but I’d have to ask him.
EB: Are there any stories that you’d like to share about your past or American past or events that have happened?
ZN: No, I’ve lived on a cattle ranch, I loved it, I went on all the round up, I’ve had my own horse, brought it here to California, and one of my favorite spots in California is right here in…
BH: Franklin Canyon.
ZN: You go, Coldwater Canyon, to Mulholland, then you go across big houses, then you go into the Franklin Canyon, it’s a beautiful place.
[Pause]
NL: I remember there was this one time where I heard about riots happening--
ZN: you heard about what?
NL: Riots?
ZN: When I heard about that riot, I was on a vacation some place. I thought “That can’t happen in California”. It was down in… Where was the riot?
BH: The one in ninety-two after the Rodney King thing? Or are we talking about the Watts Riots in 65?
EB: The Watts riots.
BH: What about the Watts riots. What do you remember about that?
ZN: I wasn’t home.
BH: You weren’t?
EB: What did you think about it when you heard about it?
ZN: I thought it was horrible. I didn’t believe it. I thought, That can’t happen in California.
EB: What really shocked you about that happening in California?
ZN: Well, I thought we had better sense. What’s that one where they’re throwing rocks?
BH: Oh, Baltimore recently? Yeah, people get, excuse my french, pissed off and they just start reacting badly. One thing happens, and they start doing stuff.
ZN: That one mother took her son--
BH: slapping him and cursing at him, and they call her mother of year. I thought, I don’t think so, but she got him off the street. That was the important part, but that’s how riots start. People get mad about something, and they start doing crazy stuff.
ZN: I don’t even like to look at the news because it’s so horrible.
BH: But we like David Muir anyway.
EB: What did you think about the civil rights movement? Did you think the government should do something to ensure equal rights and equality for all its citizens?
ZN: I don’t really know. I think the government does the best that they can.
NL: Would you describe yourself as a liberal or a conservative?
ZN: What?
NL: Would you describe yourself as a liberal or a conservative?
ZN: Conservative.
[Pause]
EB: Is there any part in your life, in American history that you like the most? You supported the most?
ZN: I don’t know, I’ve lived in this little town in Arizona, and it’s right near the Indian reservation, and the Apache Indians, I went to school with them. Right now, they’ve practically taken over the town.
NL: Were they prejudiced against the Indians or was everything --
ZN: No, no, we weren’t prejudiced against the Indians because President… Indians were part of our life really.
EB: When you lived in Arizona, it would be around President Hoover and President Roosevelt, that time?
ZN: I don’t… no before that.
EB: Before Hoover… Wilson? Woodrow Wilson?
NL: I don’t think it was Wilson.
EB: President Wilson was the beginning of the 19. It would be Wilson, then Hoover, then Roosevelt.
ZN: No, I would have to look that…
NL: Wait, so what year were you born? No rudeness or anything.
ZN: I was born in 1913. I’m one hundred and one.
NL: 1913?
ZN: I will be a hundred and two in July, so if you wonder where my memory has gone, it’s gone.
EB: Well, thank you for sharing with us.
ZN: Oh, I don’t think I’ve done very good for you.
EB: No, you have. You shared your experiences, and what you thought about these events in American history, and we appreciate you helping us with our project.
ZN: Oh, I love America. I wouldn’t want to live anyplace else.
EB: Thank you.
NL: So what’s your favorite part about America? Do you just love it completely?
ZN: I do, I love America. I feel sad when things happens, and I think, why would that happen? No, we’ve lived here in the San Fernando Valley. There was nothing here except trees. Where our church is, over here, that was a tomato patch.
NL: Really? That’s funny to imagine.
EB: Once again, thank you for helping us, and thank you for sharing your story. We will make sure we do your story justice.
ZN: I wish I could remember more.
EB: We understand.
ZN: Tell them about Franklin Canyon. Sometime go up to Franklin Canyon. It’s a beautiful place. You go up on Mulholland Drive, and you wouldn’t even know it’s there, and then it would go on to Beverly Hills, and the Franklin family way back when, that was their hideaway. It’s a beautiful place. There’s a little stream down, and there’s two or three little small lakes. This one little lake, it’s pond mostly, and there’s turtles. I didn’t know that turtles hibernated, but in the winter, they hibernate, and in the summertime, they come up, and you’ll find all kinds of little turtles there, and then ducks. Sometime, go up there and… Franklin Canyon.
EB: Definitely. Thank you.